2018 primary runoff results: Governor

Here are the results. Before we begin, some numbers of interest:


Year      Total
===============
2018    428,933 (inc)
2016    188,592
2014    201,283
2012    236,305
2008    187,708
2006    207,252

There were at least 241,120 early votes cast in 2018 (that number kept increasing), meaning that turnout in this year’s runoff was already higher than every other years’ runoffs before a single ballot was recorded on Tuesday. As of just before 10 PM some 380,413 votes were tallied; that number rose to 406,021 by 11 PM, with ten percent of precincts still out. I’d estimate the final number will be around 420K, depending on where the stragglers are. Which isn’t that much in absolute terms, but as you can see more than double the total of any year other than 2012. (There were no statewide runoffs in 2010.)

And as of 10 PM, the race was being called for Lupe Valdez. She had a 21K lead with 5,788 of 6,978 precincts reporting. It was a tight race all evening, with the lead swinging back and forth as different counties checked in. Congratulations to Lupe Valdez, the first Latina and LGBT person to be nominated for Governor in Texas. Thank you to Andrew White for running a good and spirited campaign. Please do stay involved, we need you.

UPDATE: Got up this morning and the vote total had climbed to 428,933, surpassing my estimate from last night, with a handful of precincts still to report.

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43 Responses to 2018 primary runoff results: Governor

  1. Logan Ratner says:

    Texas Tribune is claiming a historically low turnout. https://www.texastribune.org/2018/05/22/texas-primary-runoffs-results-who-won/

    Your numbers say best in over a decade. Can you elaborate?

  2. Corey Olomon says:

    I believe they are only compairing elections with Democratic gubernatorial runoff. The last times that happened were in 1972 and 1990 when Texas was very different politically and most people voted in the Democratic primaries.

  3. Corey Olomon says:

    I forgot about the 2002 runoff, but then you had former statewide official (AG Morales) VS a guy who spent several million of his own money.

  4. Logan – What Corey says, though the runoff in 2002 was for US Senate, not Governor. The last one of those was in 1990. In 2002, in the runoff for US Senate between Ron Kirk and Victor Morales, turnout was about 620K.

  5. Pingback: Post-runoff thoughts – Off the Kuff

  6. Steve Houston says:

    The post-primary revelation that Lupe Valdez owns a bunch of properties but hasn’t paid back taxes does not bode well for her campaign. Her spin that it’s because property taxes are too high is going to become an albatross around her neck given all the spending programs she supports.

  7. Manny Barrera says:

    Look like she a landlord, must not collect rent otherwise she has no excuse for not paying them, other than maybe living beyond her means. I still will vote for her, if the Trump supporters can vote for man who abuses women, who cheats on his income tax, who runs with mafia people, who works with the Russians and others, who is corrupt the bones, than Valdez is darn good compared to him.

    Let us not forget Abbott made his millions by running under a falling tree and then worked hard to change the law so others could not do the same.

    Dan Patrick has swindled hundreds of thousands of businesses with his bankruptcies.

  8. Manny Barrera says:

    that would be dollars, a few businesses

  9. Jules says:

    Technically Valdez isn’t delinquent until July since she is making monthly payments. Also, because of interest, she will end up paying more.

    Property taxes do not go to the state.

  10. Steve Houston says:

    Since I’m not a Trump supporter, I’ll file away Manny’s rant under “Manny’s rants”, the need to compare to a president using a false equivalency argument duly noted. And complaining that Governor Abbott successfully sued when a neighbor’s tree crippled him for life doesn’t have anything to do with it either. If she’s living beyond her means, she should have sold one of the properties to pay for her taxes, and if she’s not then it doesn’t speak well to her ability to keep a budget for her own finances. Other’s point out that her excuses in filing the disclosure forms required by law make all her typos and undisclosed property yet another set of problems to factor in.

    As far as Dan Patrick’s past bankruptcies are concerned, those also included a failure to pay owed taxes, the media pointing that out when he ran for state senate. I had issues with that too, even though he paid them after he kept declaring he did not owe them but I must be consistent in being unable to support either of them given their inability to manage their own affairs. That her problems were left undisclosed until after the primary leads me to think the media timed things that way on purpose, the original source admitting they had been checking it out for a long time.

  11. Bill Daniels says:

    I am just going to sit back and enjoy the mental gymnastics Manny will go through to justify his vote for the deporter of Dallas, Miss Lupe.

  12. Manny Barrera says:

    Steve why the insult, what rant, there is no lie on what I stated, you are a Trump supporter.

    You are quick to point when something that the Republicans always use, why?

    You defend Republicans and are always are out to hurt unions, especially government unions, who does that?

    Bill, Steve, started not by logical arguments but demeaning my words, an attack on me. He is no mental genius and constantly misstates facts and resorts to alternative facts.

    He always gets personal because he is incapable of arguing using facts that is why he resorts to insults. If he claims that I rant than he Lies.

    Abbott did not pay federal taxes, https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas-politics/2016/11/22/gov-abbott-pay-federal-income-tax-2015

    https://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Abbott-paid-104-federal-income-taxes-6211889.php

    Abbott like Trump, don’t pay federal taxs, and like Trump is a racist.

    Oh, that liar, that would be Steve, change the argument, about the falling tree. So his sense of moral high ground is b.s. The argument was tort reform, not falling trees. That is fall equivalency that Trump supporters aka Republicans have become the master of using.

  13. Manny Barrera says:

    That is a false equivalency,

    Steve changed my argument to falling trees when it was tort reform, if he was smart as he thinks he would have known that. He probably did and used false equivalency.

    His government job should look into his internet use.

  14. Manny Barrera says:

    Steve and alternative facts used by him;

    May 4, Bill, I’m all for expanding EMS because that is where 80% or more of HFD’s calls for help are directed although only comprising a small percentage of the manpower. The bulk of the force get to sleep and handle all their personal business on the clock for those rare times when more than a skeleton shift is needed.

    That statement by Steve is not true, he can’t prove it but it sounds good.

    March 15, Steve wrote – And our forefathers understood advances in weapon technology, their reasoning for recognizing the right of free men to own whatever weapons the government had being pretty obvious.

    Really the founding father knew that submarines and nukes were right around the corner, that is a lie and Steve has no way of proving it.

    June 29th, Steve forgets to play neutral and his trumpkins behavior comes out, But seriously, one can be conservative and point out various flaws with the old system just as easily as one can be some liberal snowflake.

    Really Steve “liberal snowflake”?

    On the same day, Steve goes off on a studies suggesting that flying is more environmentally friendly than driving, He touts one study, the same way that climate deniers do to justify themselves, “Jason, there is a growing body of data that proves driving, especially in real world conditions, leaves a larger carbon footprint than flying. “One of the few researchers trying to make a straight, consistent comparison across the U.S transportation sector is Michael Sivak of the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute.

    In fact that study was debunked, but Steve like all climate deniers will misdirect knowing that most people won’t bother looking it up, https://thinkprogress.org/no-flying-is-not-greener-than-driving-7de8d53959ab/

    Awaiting your reply Steve.

  15. Steve Houston says:

    Manny, you should take the fact that I agreed with you on Dan Patrick and run rather than take samples of past comments out of context, apply the “Manny Spin”, and think you’re going to convince anyone. Abbott’s decision to engage in tort reform while having won a settlement for the event that crippled him has nothing to do with any policy advocated by the tax delinquent. Who better to see the abuses than someone that went through the system?

    2) I am not employed by the government. I’m sure your legal mind can wrap itself around like, just pretend it’s a parking dispute and put that astute mind of yours to work.

    3) Even HFD personnel admit that sleeping on the clock is an accepted practice, so is doing personal chores on company time, and the stats for EMS vs. fire suppression can be found in the yearly budget or the monthly review the city does. Rather than send pumpers rushing through rush hour traffic when an ambulance is needed, don’t you think it makes sense to add more ambulances, after all, HFD personnel believe so when asked (at least those not in fire suppression). Besides, look at city statistics show the rarity of need for large volumes of fire apparatus and staff to combat fires, why do you think the city’s own study recommended laying off over 800 of them?

    4) Advances in technology for weapons is nothing new and the reasons our forefathers gave for adopting the 2nd Amendment stands on its own merits. If you translate that to saying I specifically declared submarines and nukes as free game, by all means knock yourself out to put words in my mouth. For the record, you can own a submarine but I advise against it since they tend to be money pits.

    5) When in Rome…regarding use of snowflake as a word in common discussion.

    6) If you read the mental gymnastics Rutherford had to go through to come up with his conclusion in your rebuttal about flying versus driving, you’d note that he starts adding passengers to the car, downsizes the car to a hybrid, and so forth to arrive at his conclusion. Keep that in mind when all I said was there was a growing body of data showing the trends for each means of travel. Sivak’s arguments are that unless you pack your car with people and/or use a hybrid, flying is more efficient for certain trips, no big surprise there to anyone but Manny. In any case, it doesn’t change the fact that “there is a growing body of evidence” but thanks for bothering to look all that up like a stalker. 🙂

  16. Manny Barrera says:

    Again, Steve you choose to use deception to prove points that are not true. You took a small part of your Fireman statement to make seem it was all true, not all fireman work 48 hours shifts, so they do not sleep when not on call. Yet, you chose to change what you said to mean something else, your words were clear.

    Again you use alternative facts to claim something is true when it is not, the fireman lay-off would be because of https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/houston/article/Report-calls-for-restructuring-city-government-to-12620724.php

    Steve keep it up, I will be your truth checker and determine who is worse in alternative facts you or Trump.

    The true meaning of the second Amendment is clear says Steve, as one of my professor stated, the Supreme Court is not always right it is just the last to have a say on a subject. A well-regulated militia is a crucial part of the second amendment. There will be other Supreme Courts that will see things differently. There is nothing clear about the Second Amendment.

    When in Rome, that is hard core Republican to use “Liberal Snowflake”, this blog is not a conservative site. This not Rome.

    I am now a stalker for looking to see if your stating fact or alternative reality? Really, must be hard to be proven wrong. Did his study ever get peer review? Answer that and provide a link if that is a yes. That is the Transportation study, in case you are not sure. So, I guess that would make you a stalker also for looking at the link I provided? Steve like I said you tend to throw insults with alternative facts. You also changed what you originally stated about the study, but that is typical of Trump supporters.

    So, you defend Abbott by claiming that he saw what he could and decided to change making it so easy to make money from lawsuits? Do you expect anyone to believe that? So now, you throw in crippled to make it seem that I am picking on him for that, that is a typical way that Trump supporters do things. I never even mentioned his disability, you did and continue to do so. People are beginning to catch on to what Trump supporters are engaged in.

    The Republicans have trolls to respond to many who tend to point out how evil they are, that is part of their corruption. Some of them do use alternative facts to obfuscate the issues. Are you one, only you know that.

    I don’t mind insults it just adds color to the argument, but adds nothing else.

  17. Manny Barrera says:

    800 would be laid off, because of pension, see link, not because too many, nice try Steve.

  18. Steve Houston says:

    The amount of “Manny Spin” is increasing…
    1) HFD works on a 24 hour schedule, not a 48 hour schedule. I have pointed out for years, prior to the 2016 report by the way, that both HFD and HPD need to be restructured to be more efficient, HFD in part because they get to sleep on duty, perform personal chores, and are not actively engaged in HFD duties much of their lengthy shifts most of the time. The report agrees with me, you can “fact check” chapter 5 of the report itself though it is mentioned in other places too. Regarding your second comment, the article does not claim the pension had anything to do with the recommendation to lay off employees, nor did the actual report found on the city’s website…nice try Manny.

    2) Under our system of government, the Supreme Court gets to decide on how the Constitution is interpreted which makes them “right” compared to those like Manny who try to spin things wildly off topic.

    3) This is a political discussion forum, Charles is certainly liberal but he welcomes conservatives here as well so yes, this amounts to “Rome” and terms like “snowflake” that have found themselves used in the common vernacular are at times appropriate.

    4) You’re acting like a stalker by going back months, picking various comments out of context, and then throwing them all in a post that has nothing to do with any of them; The fact is that the democratic gubernatorial candidate has financial troubles, has yet to pay her property taxes, and failed to file her paperwork accurately. Spin it any way you like but that doesn’t help her candidacy, nor does throwing a bunch of unrelated discussions change her inadequacy for the position.

    5) By all means research transportation topics all you like to find what I said was true, remembering that at no time did I claim “all” trips by plane were more efficient than “all” trips by car. Your failure to comprehend something is on you, not others.

    6) Abbott did not lead the charge for tort reform, the voters having their say on the matter when they voted in favor of the changes that were pushed by Governor Bush and the majority of the state legislature. Sorry that you don’t agree with the will of the people, well, the voters at least. To say his path was “easy” or dislike comments regarding how he was disabled in the accident is just more “Manny Spin” because when you don’t like the facts, you throw something else in there to muddy up the waters. Under the laws existing in the mid 1980’s, he had every right to pursue damages and who better to defend tort reform than someone with firsthand knowledge of how the system worked?

  19. Manny Barrera says:

    Again Steve goes off topic with his nonsense. He takes one error to make a mountain out of a mole hill. So they work 24 hours shifts everything else he states does not matter to the main argument, what he does is “False Equivalency”. They work two 24 hour shifts in one week. 48 hours so what does Steve think, no sleep during that time, let them sleep and not answer calls, go off duty for lunch? I assume that Steve does not do that in his government job during his lunch hour or the many breaks he is given?

    2) Steve stated the same thing I did he just spinned it differently. A different Supreme Court will state that only well regulated militia, so spin away Steve.

    3) You are a Trump supporter or conservative if you want to call yourself that. Your spin works on Fox viewers.

    4) I am acting like a stalker, by researching what you write, that is called research, unlike you I have not outed you as to who you really are, you are the stalker Steve.

    5) You changed what you stated about transportation, just like a true climate denier.

    6) Abbott did not work toward Tort Reform? Again you resort to alternative facts, if you twitted or wrote as much as Trump I think you would beat his alternative facts misspeaks a day, http://farmingtonhills.legalexaminer.com/uncategorized/greg-abbott-tort-reform-hypocrite/

  20. Manny Barrera says:

    Steve does personal errands during his lunch time or breaks, to clarify first paragraph.

  21. Manny Barrera says:

    Steve talks about equipment because that is a truth, but what leaves out that is a very small part of the fire department budget. He seeks to confuse the issue, a true Trump supporter.

  22. Steve Houston says:

    “Manny’s Spins of the Day” should be a blog. It’d be worth a laugh. Let’s solve your paranoia issue one last time Manny. I am a fiscal conservative with libertarian leanings regarding social issues, neither major political party truly representing me very well (I preferred Andrew White over your choice but maybe he’ll be more interested in running four years from now when Valdez is just another bad memory to the democratic party).

    I am not a “trumper” nor have I ever been, that being your knee jerk reaction to anyone that disagrees with you here. I’ll leave the others to determine who’s version of the above ideas is closer to the truth, should they care, but just because you keep fabricating BS does not make it accurate. I’ll close out by saying that HFD’s equipment budget should be much larger to replace outdated gear and vehicles, but more to add the scores of ambulances needed for their restructuring given their outdated practices.

  23. Ross says:

    Manny, “well regulated” doesn’t mean what you think it does. At the time of the writing of the Bill of Rights, well regulated meant well trained, or functioning well, like a well regulated clock. Besides, the militia clause doesn’t stand alone, unlike the important clause at the end that says “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

  24. Manny Barrera says:

    Steve, only ultra-right wing trumpers use the term “Liberal Snowflake”. Saying you ain’t a trumper does not make it so, since you know my name, put your real name out so that others can see how you vote, easy way to prove you are no trumper.

    Well I am glad that you agree that your false argument about equipment that you have been using, does not have much bearing on the fire department budget.

    BS, really Steve, some of that artful language that you like to use, right Steve? Actually I did have a blog once you know that and I used to get close a million hits a year, I do my research. Some of the data on the blog was used in the conviction of Chris Oliver. So spin away and continue with the lies, every time you do so I will be there to expose them. For a long time you have stalking me and throwing insults, so why do the statements I make bother you so? By the way, why is it that you don’t hardly post on Big Jolly?

    So, Steve, do you personal errands on your lunch breaks? So why a hard on because fireman do the same, they do have to take the equipment as they are on call, so are the police.

    I am glad you are for Andrew White, but he ain’t running anymore. In fact I voted for him, I stated as much earlier. But you Steve, like to misinform so you make a statement that was not what I stated. I stated that I would vote Lupe Valdez, over Abbott the racist who like Trump does not pay federal income tax. So I take it you will vote for Lupe also, since you are a Libertarian who stands up for social issues like Gay issues. But not Black or Brown issues, what kind of Libertarian is that Steve?

    But Steve why is it that you hardly if ever post on Big Jolly?

  25. Manny Barrera says:

    Ross I won’t argue the second amendment other than to say when was the last you “bear arms”. What I did state was that at present the Supreme Court says it means one thing, at one time white people could own black people. At one time people could discriminate because of color, religion, ethnicity, etc, at one time a man could not marry a man. All those were okay according to the Supreme Court.

    The founding fathers were smart but not all knowing, how would you feel if you were a woman at the time and were chattel?

    All I am saying that in future a Supreme Court will probably overrule laws on people owning arms. The number of hunters is going down every year. The NRA survives with the help of Russian money, and so on.

  26. Bill Daniels says:

    Manny,

    If the government ever decides to go collecting the guns, that’s the exact moment in time that Civil War II will commence. We have too many examples of what happens to civilian populations that are disarmed, and it ain’t good.

    Look at what’s happening in England at the moment. Muslim invaders are ‘grooming’ and raping the indigenous population, but who gets thrown in jail? The native Englishman who dares to report on those Muslim rape gangs.

    Free Tommy Robinson.

    The Second Amendment protects the first.

  27. Steve Houston says:

    “Manny’s Spin” continues to dance around yet not come too close to the truth but everyone here is familiar with that. I could display my primary voting record but that would not show you I voted for Johnson in the last presidential race, nor any other specific picks, because the records don’t record our candidate votes. And I appreciate that you find my writing to be “artful” but just because I find fault in your candidate of choice doesn’t mean I am “for” a particular alternative. Valdez has about as much chance to become governor as Wendy Davis did, zilch, and you know it.

    That doesn’t make Abbott a wonderful choice. It makes him the lesser of two evils, much like millions saw Trump as the lesser of two evils compared to Clinton, knowing that better qualified Johnson couldn’t win as a third party candidate. You just latch onto any garbage you can because Trump’s idea of immigration reform has been to kick them out, dreamers and all. Tough titty for you, a long time supporter of illegals, but Congress has been kicking the can down the road since Reagan granted millions of illegals amnesty and most people want something done. My personal solution would not kick all your illegal friends out of the country but in an age of polarized politics, nobody wants a happy middle compromise.

    So I reserve the right to use whatever language I like, I maintain that the city of Houston needs to restructure both of its biggest departments, one of which will need a great deal more equipment and fewer classified firemen while the other doesn’t need the 500 or 2000 more people it’s chief is demanding (probably less), we still have a right to bear arms, I don’t run personal errands on company time, and I wish you well even though you have proven to be the biggest racist and hater on here (you haven’t hated on gays in awhile, that secret group of gays that you think are out to get Latinos daring to run for office per your previous comments…lol).

  28. Steve Houston says:

    Bill, I don’t see government deciding to collect all your guns within our lifetime. The majority of people who would be directed to collect them are on your side so I don’t see a lot of cooperation taking place if given some silly order.

  29. Manny Barrera says:

    Really Steve now you know what every one thinks around here, how would you know that at most there may be two or three Trump supporters like you here on this site, lie number one, you do admire your leaders lying ways so you do the same.

    It is not about Valdez, it is about Beto, Steve you know that, I have stated as much, but again you mis-speak that is lie number 2.

    Now Lupe is evil, why? Your Trump id is showing again. Lie number 3

    I am a “Illegal” supporter, really, your racism is showing Steve. In fact that is not true, Lie number 4

    You don’t run errands while at lunch from work? You are not a police or fire person. Their jobs are different you should know that but your hate of unions like all Trumpers is so over powering you resort to lies about them.

    I have not hated on gays, that is lie number 5 . I was against the City Ordinance that is not the same, Lie number 6

    Steve you are outdoing yourself, so why not post on Big Jolly?

    Lie number 7, most police officer are for gun control, if you read as much as you claim you would know that Steve.

    Bear arms I seriously doubt you have ever had to bear arms. Do you bear arms against rabbits, Steve? Lie number 8, very slight chance you have served, but I doubt it.

  30. Manny Barrera says:

    Bill, name those examples that you claim? I am still waiting for that to happen in England and Australia? Like Steve you state things that are design to mislead.

  31. Manny Barrera says:

    You may be right about Civil War II, Bill, some people think they had right to own people, slaves and they fought for that believe. I am sure that you have the same mentality.

  32. Manny Barrera says:

    You are right that I believed that “gays were out to get Latinos daring to run for office per your previous comments”, there was ample evidence of that, but that is not happening as much lately. Does not mean that I hate them Steve, hate is something that you and Trump and others like you have in common. You hate! How do you sleep at night Steve with so much hate, are you like Trump it that also.

    So Steve why not put your real name out so we can see if you work for a government entity, and how you vote. We can find out if you have a dog in the fight and that is why you lie so often. You work for the county and as a consultant on the side.

  33. Bill Daniels says:

    Manny,

    Close the spaces and read about what has happened to Tommy Robinson in England. Dragged off the street for live streaming outside a courthouse on a public street, arrested, brought before a court with no legal representation, found guilty on the spot, sentenced, and sent to prison all in the same fell swoop. Then, to top it all off, the ‘judge’ issues a gag order making it illegal for British media to report on all of this.

    Think about that. This is England we are talking about. England. If it can happen there, it can happen here, and we need to be vigilant so that it does not.

    https ://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12378/tommy-robinson-injustice

  34. Manny Barrera says:

    One more thing Steve, the Gay community is intelligent they realize that if people like you and Trump manage to change one or more critical Supreme Court Justices, they can kiss their ability to marry goodbye. Texas may go back and enforce their sodomy laws. https://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-prohibited-consensual-sexual-activity-laws.html

    Heck that should even change your mind about hating on brown and black people, Steve. Maybe a vote for Lupe on your part would be good, I stated on my first statement that I intended to vote for her. So not Gay hate Steve, how about you?

  35. Manny Barrera says:

    So no Gay hate by me, Steve.

  36. Manny Barrera says:

    Heck Steve I have supported a Gay Republican elected official for the longest time, you know that.

  37. Manny Barrera says:

    One incident Bill, but you choose not to look at more than headlines, here is more on that

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tommy-robinson-arrested-leeds-court-child-grooming-trial-edl-founder-latest-a8368821.html

    You do know he was defending right wing rapists and had already been convicted and told to behave before the incident, right Bill?

    Need some history on him Bill? Try this, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/tommy-robinson/

    Still waiting Bill for the government to become like Nazi Germany because that is what you were really getting at, right Bill?

    Maybe we should arm “Illegals” so things like this don’t happen? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/us/border-patrol-shooting-woman.html

    Both are criminals in your mind but the white male that is bigot and racist, has his rights violated. The person who crossed a border seeking a border life has her rights violated, she killed on the spot. Explain the difference Bill.

  38. Jules says:

    I do not understand why anyone would think people should stay awake for 24 hours at a time.

  39. Steve Houston says:

    Apparently I hit a nerve with Manny…lol. His lies are so obvious that it’s getting funny just to push his buttons so I apologize to the rest of you for keeping him going.

    Jules, it’s not about keeping them awake 24 hours in a row, it’s about promoting efficiency by not paying people to sleep.

  40. Manny Barrera says:

    Steve, you must really think much of yourself that somehow you know what pushes my buttons, do you really think that your lies have any effect?

    There is one thing that I have learned from the Trumps and like minded racists and bigots, is that you can’t let them have the last lie. They will attempt to that every time. The game is over when the moderator closes the discussion or you stop your lying.

    So what is your real name Steve let us know so we can check to see if your comments are full of bull as how you vote and what you do during work.

    Jules, don’t buy that bs from Steve, he has been pushing that concept about sleeping on the job for quite some time. He knows that they have to sleep and they are on duty, if the alarm comes they have to wake up and go save people. Unlike him that does his posting often while at work and being on the public payroll.

  41. Mainstream says:

    Manny,

    I am not aware of a long-serving, openly “Gay Republican elected official” in our community, of whom you claim to be a supporter. Or were you referring to someone in another state or city?

  42. Manny Barrera says:

    Mainstream, evil is ignorance, I don’t out anyone that is Gay that has chosen not come out. Since ignorance is evil, I guess that would make you evil. By the way I should give credit to ignorance is evil to the source, a Greek who lived about 2500 years ago.

  43. Jules says:

    Steve, so what is the solution to the problem you made up?

Comments are closed.